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Tuesday, July 8th 2014, 8:59pm

2. Waldekische Cavallerie Regiment and 12. Jägerbatallion, 18th-19th century

Hello,

first I would like to say I'm glad I found these forums, since I've recently stumbled upon ancestors from Germany and Austria (I'm from the Czech Republic myself, but ethnically I'm about 70 % German, so that was only a matter of time), and it seems this place is a great source of information. Now, to the question at hand - two questions, actually.

1. On a birth record of my ancestor born in 1823 I found out that her grandfather was a "soldat beim löblich Waldekischen Cavallerie regiment". There is no number, but there is "N:2" written just one line below that, right after his wife's first name. At first I thought this would be the number of the house she was born/living in, but that is actually listed as "unknown" at the very end, so it's not that. That led me (and a few other people) to believe that this is the regiment number written in a wrong place - maybe the person who wrote it forgot about it at first and added it later, who knows. But in case it's true, I'm looking for the 2nd regiment of the Waldeck army. Now, since the man had a granddaughter in 1823, that would probably make him around 45-60 years old at the time, and therefore born between 1760-1780, and deployed in the army at the turn of the century, maybe during the Napoleonic wars. I wrote to the Bundesarchiv, not knowing that the Waldeck area is not in their competence, and I was redirected to the Hessen archive. I wrote there, and I am waiting for a response, but I thought I'd ask here. I wasn't able to find any mention of such a regiment online, does anyone know what sources other than the archive could I use? Maybe someone would know where that regiment was deployed, how it moved through Europe, and so on. This man had a wife from Schwaz (Tyrol region, Austria), and then settled in Gebirgsneudorf (Nová Ves v Horách) in Bohemia, which are both pretty far from Waldeck, so I think it's not that far fetched to assume he visited those places with the army. It would be nice to have some records of the regiment, so I could put the pieces together. A screenshot of the important part of this record is here - http://i.gyazo.com/51ce5e1f8658d4d20eb5f3e215b833d9.png.

2. On a death record of a different ancestor, it is stated that he was an invalid from the 12th Jäger batallion, and I assume it means this one - http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1._Königlic…ataillon_Nr._12. Now, this person died in Most (Brüx, Bohemia) in 1830 at the age of 50, meaning he was born in 1780 or around that time, and therefore was pretty much the perfect age for the army when the Napoleonic wars started. He may have even been in the Befreiungskriege, and in Holland (see: Feldzüge. It makes sense that he was then in Brüx, since Saxony is right there, bordering with Bohemia. However, there is a word written at the and, it is a place name, which I wasn't able to read properly. I'm not sure whether that was the place he was born, it seems more likely that it was the origin of his unit or something like that. It looked like Wisbaden/Wiesbaden at first, but the only place called Wiesbaden is in Hesse, and that's really far away from Saxony, where this batallion was from. So I was wondering if someone knew something about this batallion, and what that word could be referring to, and possibly correct me if I'm wrong about the batallion from the record being the one in the Wikipedia article. I'll try the Bundesarchiv, since this area should be under their competence, but it would be nice to get some pointers here. Screenshot - http://i.gyazo.com/64a4be439680a481f7b3cd3fb1ba935c.png.

Also, does Germany have some sort of records about individual soldiers from those times? It's definitely a long shot, I know, and I'm not really expecting anything big to turn up, but does something like old conscription lists or officer records exist? And should I try to get any particular books to look into about this? I tried the local libraries and a few bookstores online, but since my German isn't all that great (I only recently started taking lessons to improve it), it's hard for me to find anything on the subject.

:danke:

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "MB327" (Jul 8th 2014, 9:05pm)


Svenja

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Location: Kanton Luzern, Schweiz; Herkunft: Kanton Zug, Schweiz

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Wednesday, July 9th 2014, 12:48am

Hello and Welcome here!

I'm not able to answer your questions, but I have translated your query in German, so that all people here can understand it and probably someone is able to help you.

Auf einem Geburtseintrag einer meiner Vorfahrinnen, geboren 1823, ist vermerkt, dass sein Grossvater ein „Soldat beim löblich Waldekischen Cavallerie Regiment“ war. Da dieser Mann 1823 Grossvater wurde, muss er zwischen 45 und 60 Jahre alt gewesen sein und somit zwischen 1760-1780 geboren worden sein. Somit muss er zum Jahrhundertwechsel in die Armee eingetreten sein, vielleicht während der Napoleonischen Kriege. Ich habe das Bundesarchiv angeschrieben, aber die haben mich an das Archiv in Hessen weitergeleitet. Also habe ich dorthin geschrieben, aber bis jetzt noch keine Antwort erhalten, deshalb frage ich nun mal hier im Forum. Ich konnte online keine Informationen über das Regiment finden. Weiss hier jemand welche Quellen es noch gibt, oder wo dieses Regiment aufgestellt wurde, wo in Europa es im Einsatz war usw. Dieser Mann hat übrigens eine Frau aus Schwaz (Tirol) geheiratet und liess sich später in Gebirgsneudorf (Nova Ves v Horach) in Böhmen nieder. Da beide Orte sehr weit von Waldeck entfernt sind, frage ich mich, ob er durch die Armee dorthin gekommen ist. Gibt es irgendwelche Unterlagen zu diesem Regiment? Ein sreenshot der wichtigsten Teile des eingangs erwähnten Geburtseintrages findet ihr im obigen Link.

2. In einem Sterbeeintrag eines anderen Vorfahren ist vermerkt, dass er ein Invalider des 12. Jäger Bataillons gewesen war. Ein Link zu einem möglichen Regiment ist im englischen Text eingefügt. Diese Person starb 1830 in Most bei Brüx in Böhmen im Alter von 50 Jahren. Somit muss er um 1780 herum geboren worden sein und könnte an den napoleonischen Kriegen sowie den Befreiungskriegen teilgnommen haben. Am Ende ist ein Wort, dass wohl ein Ortsname ist, aber ich kann es nicht entziffern. Ich bin auch nicht sicher ob es sich um seinen Geburtsort handelt oder um den Standort seiner Einheit oder sowas ähnliches. Es könnte Wiesbaden heissen, aber das liegt ja in Hessen und das ist wieder sehr weit entfernt von Sachsen oder Böhmen. Nun würde ich gerne wissen, ob mir hier jemand etwas zu diesem Jäger Bataillon sagen kann, was das letzte Wort bedeutet und auf was es sich bezieht. Ist mit dem Jäger Bataillon im Sterbeeintrag überhaupt dasjenige gemeint, das ich bei Wikipedia gefunden habe? (Siehe Link im englischen Text). Gibt es ein Archiv, dass mehr Informationen oder Unterlagen zu diesem Jäger Bataillon haben könnte?

Gibt es in Deutschland noch irgendwo militärische Unterlagen aus der fraglichen Zeit, aus denen man Angaben zu bestimmten Soldaten entnehmen kann, zum Beispiel Musterungslisten? Oder gibt es irgendwelche hilfreichen Bücher und wo kann ich diese finden? Ich hab schon ein wenig gesucht in Bibliotheken und auch in online Bücherläden, aber mit meinen geringen Deutschkenntnissen ist es schwierig das richtige zu finden.
Geschichten zu meinen Vorfahren und auf den Spuren der ITEN-Familien in den USA.
http://iten-genealogie.jimdo.com/
Mit Linklisten: Auswanderung, Kriegsschicksale, Deutsche Ostgebiete, jüdische Genealogie.

HJS

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Location: Ulmen

Societies: WGfF, CompGen, Deutschen Gesellschaft für Heereskunde

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Wednesday, July 9th 2014, 8:23am

Hello,

I think it is no German Regiment. The Fürstentum Waldeck sends to the Deutsche Bund only Infantry, no Cavallry. But there were Waldeck'sche Units in the austrian army.

Austrian Cavallerie

in the 18th century it was use the military-Units named same as the leaders name. ANd there are some Fürsten von Waldeck in the austrian army.

It will be helpfully, if you found an information when the men was young and in the army.

kind regards

Jürgen

Svenja

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Location: Kanton Luzern, Schweiz; Herkunft: Kanton Zug, Schweiz

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Wednesday, July 9th 2014, 1:45pm

Hallo Jürgen

Vielen Dank für deine Antwort. Aufgrund der Ortsangaben dachte ich mir auch schon, dass es doch eher ein österreichisches Regiment sein müsste.
Aber ich kenne mich mit österreichischen Regimentern und der fraglichen Zeit nicht aus und wusste nicht, ob es tatsächlich eines mit diesem Namen gab.

Zu österreichischen Einheiten findet man manchmal auch etwas in österreichischen Zeitungen, auch aus der fraglichen Zeit.

Sometimes you can find info about Austrian Units and soldiers in historic Austrian newspapers which are online:
http://anno.onb.ac.at/
You can search with name of person, name of place, name of the unit or the unit leader.
Unfortunately I can't read the surname in the birth record in your link.

Regards
Svenja
Geschichten zu meinen Vorfahren und auf den Spuren der ITEN-Familien in den USA.
http://iten-genealogie.jimdo.com/
Mit Linklisten: Auswanderung, Kriegsschicksale, Deutsche Ostgebiete, jüdische Genealogie.

5

Wednesday, July 9th 2014, 3:09pm

Thank you both for your answers. It has never occurred to me that the cavalry regiment might, in fact, be from Austria - but it makes sense, because the wife of the soldier was from Austria, too.

Jürgen, I unfortunately do not have any detailed information about the age of the man, the only thing I know is that his granddaughter was born in 1823, so I think he was most likely born around 1760-1770, and could have been in the army between 1780-1810. Since I don't even know where he was originally from, there is no way for me to find out his exact birth year right now. :(

Svenja, thank you so much for translating and for the information. The man in the Waldeck cavalry was named "Karl Kloppings" (or possibly Carl in some records, I will try both variations while searching). I'll try to understand the site with the newspapers and make use of it, it looks like it could be very helpful. :thumbsup:

Also, does anyone have an idea whether the second case I asked about was really the batallion in the Wikipedia article? I would like to add it to the man's record in my family tree, but I'm still not completely certain. ?(

Jensus

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Location: Deutschland, Hessen

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6

Thursday, July 10th 2014, 2:22am

.... 2. On a death record of a different ancestor, it is stated that he was an invalid from the 12th Jäger batallion, and I assume it means this one - http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1._Königlic…ataillon_Nr._12. Now, this person died in Most (Brüx, Bohemia) in 1830 at the age of 50, meaning he was born in 1780 or around that time, and therefore was pretty much the perfect age for the army when the Napoleonic wars started. He may have even been in the Befreiungskriege, and in Holland (see: Feldzüge. It makes sense that he was then in Brüx, since Saxony is right there, bordering with Bohemia. However, there is a word written at the and, it is a place name, which I wasn't able to read properly. I'm not sure whether that was the place he was born, it seems more likely that it was the origin of his unit or something like that. It looked like Wisbaden/Wiesbaden at first, but the only place called Wiesbaden is in Hesse, and that's really far away from Saxony, where this batallion was from. So I was wondering if someone knew something about this batallion, and what that word could be referring to, and possibly correct me if I'm wrong about the batallion from the record being the one in the Wikipedia article. I'll try the Bundesarchiv, since this area should be under their competence, but it would be nice to get some pointers here. Screenshot - http://i.gyazo.com/64a4be439680a481f7b3cd3fb1ba935c.png. ...



Hello,
.... Also, does anyone have an idea whether the second case I asked about was really the batallion in the Wikipedia article? I would like to add it to the man's record in my family tree, but I'm still not completely certain. ?(

I'm not sure, but I think it must be also an unit from Austria (maybe the k. u. k. 12. Galizische Jäger-Bataillon from Moravia) ????
Maybe you can asked here for the personnel roster/record: http://oesta.gv.at/site/5001/default.aspx
;) Best regards,
Jens


http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/FAQ_Erster_…terreich-Ungarn

Svenja

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Location: Kanton Luzern, Schweiz; Herkunft: Kanton Zug, Schweiz

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Thursday, July 10th 2014, 3:28pm

Hallo

Eine Nachfrage beim österreichischen Kriegsarchiv wird in diesem Fall beim jetzigen Wissensstand wohl nichts
bringen, denn alle Angaben, die man dort für eine Suche braucht, sind entweder unbekannt oder unsicher.

Sie benötigen für genealogische bzw. biographische Forschungen im Kriegsarchiv Grunddaten, wie
Familienname, Vorname und Geburtsjahr, Geburtsort und/oder Heimatort, zumindest aber Heimatbezirk bzw.
nach 1868/69 Kronland - sowie von 1740-1869 die Kenntnis des Truppenkörpers (des Regiments).


For researches in the Kriegsarchiv, which Jensus mentioned, you nee to know the surname, birth year,
place of birth, or place of origin, or district of origin, and from 1740 to 1869 the Regiment.

http://oesta.gv.at/site/7817/default.aspx

Another question: In the first case you said, it is the birth entry of a grandchild. Is there mentioned
where her/his parents were born or came from and have you found their birth entries or marriage too?


Gruss
Svenja
Geschichten zu meinen Vorfahren und auf den Spuren der ITEN-Familien in den USA.
http://iten-genealogie.jimdo.com/
Mit Linklisten: Auswanderung, Kriegsschicksale, Deutsche Ostgebiete, jüdische Genealogie.

Detlef05

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Location: Hamburg

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Thursday, July 10th 2014, 5:42pm

Hello MB327,

I guess your document is part of a birth certificate (birth of a legitimate daughter in Therezin). The parents are Karl Klapping (Klepping?) and his wife Margarethe; they were living in Therezin house Nr. 2. The house-number where the mother was born is unknown (I can't decipher the name of the villige [Schwerg???]).

Maybe you can get help here regarding military matters: http://www.waldeckischer-geschichtsverein.de/.

Kind Regards
Detlef

Svenja

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Location: Kanton Luzern, Schweiz; Herkunft: Kanton Zug, Schweiz

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Thursday, July 10th 2014, 7:40pm

Hallo Detlef

Ich habe es so verstanden, dass es in diesem Ausschnitt um die Spalte über die Mutter des Täuflings geht.
Karl und Margaretha waren die Grosseltern des Täuflings und Margaretha kam aus Schwaz, vemutlich Tirol.
Man müsste den Heiratseintrag der Eltern des Täuflings finden, da müsste es Angaben zu den Geburtsorten
geben. So könnte man dann auch die Geburtseinträge der Eltern finden und evtl. auch mehr Angaben zu den
Grosseltern. Vielleicht hat der/die Anfragende diese schon gefunden, deshalb habe ich gefragt.

Gruss
Svenja
Geschichten zu meinen Vorfahren und auf den Spuren der ITEN-Familien in den USA.
http://iten-genealogie.jimdo.com/
Mit Linklisten: Auswanderung, Kriegsschicksale, Deutsche Ostgebiete, jüdische Genealogie.

10

Thursday, July 10th 2014, 10:20pm

Thank you again for all your answers. I will try to answer all your questions in order.

Thank you, Jensus and Svenja, for the information on the personnel roster and the Kriegesarchiv. I will definitely give that a try.

Another question: In the first case you said, it is the birth entry of a grandchild. Is there mentioned
where her/his parents were born or came from and have you found their birth entries or marriage too?a


It is, indeed. I was unfortunately not able to find any birth or marriage records. The only information I have on her parents are from this record, and a birth record two generations after that. The father was a day worker (taglohner) in Stránce (Stranitz), and the mother is only listed as "aus Gebirgsneudorf". However, there are no records of their marriage in the digitalized archives I could find, and she is nowhere to be found in the Gebirgsneudorf birth records. So that makes things considerably harder for me. I will keep looking, and I will try to write to the local archive to see if they have any records that are not on the Internet yet, so I can come and take a look at them in person - there might be something there.

Hello MB327,

I guess your document is part of a birth certificate (birth of a legitimate daughter in Therezin). The parents are Karl Klapping (Klepping?) and his wife Margarethe; they were living in Therezin house Nr. 2. The house-number where the mother was born is unknown (I can't decipher the name of the villige [Schwerg???]).

Maybe you can get help here regarding military matters: http://www.waldeckischer-geschichtsverein.de/.

Kind Regards
Detlef


Hello. What I attached to my post is, in fact, just a part of the record. The whole record is about the birth of a child named Theresia, and what I showed here are only the details of that child's mother. What you mistook for "Therezin" is actually the name of the child's mother, Theresia. The record itself is from Stranitz (Stránce, Bohemia), the man's name is Karl Kloppings, and the village is Schwaz in the Tyrol region of Austria. I will try the website you provided, it's another source that might prove useful! :danke: