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JackPara

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1

Friday, January 11th 2019, 7:46pm

In welchem Archiv finden Sie ein solches Dokument?

In welchem Archiv finden Sie ein solches Dokument? Dies ist ein Dokument
eines Sohnes, und ich brauche dasselbe für seinen Vater.

In which archive can you find such a document? This is a son's document and I
need the same exhibited for his father.

#mce_temp_url#

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "JackPara" (Jan 11th 2019, 8:15pm) with the following reason: .


2

Saturday, January 12th 2019, 1:25pm

Hi,

if I take ypur question literally, there will be no archive that keeps invalid passports because they were held by the person it was exhibited for. The exhibiting authority would keep records of exhibtion. Do you mean such a record?
What purpose do you have in mind?
Fee-based archion.de keeps birth(baptism) record databases for the period 1800 -1874 for Gonzken parish where Dzingellen ( Duingellen should be a mistake) was situated.

Regards,

Thomas

JackPara

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Saturday, January 12th 2019, 1:31pm

Entschuldigung, ich benutze einen Google-Übersetzer, um in diesem Forum zu kommunizieren, deshalb gibt es solche Situationen.

Ich denke, dass die Hochzeitsurkunde von 1861-1866 in Oletzko die beste wäre. Aber es sollte doch Dokumente aus dem Militärdienst geben. Aber ich weiß nicht, wo ich sie suchen soll.

JackPara

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Saturday, January 12th 2019, 1:40pm

Ich brauche ein Dokument, in das der Geburtsort von Martin Steinwald eingetragen wird.

Detlef05

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Saturday, January 12th 2019, 4:49pm

Hello Jack,
your "Heimatschein" is a civil document, in a way an alternative passport, validity 5 years. This paper makes shure that the owner can live and work in another country without loosing his nationality at home. Johann Steinwald needed this document, because his occupation was "Ziegler", that means he was a temporary migrant worker. I doubt whether there is existing such a document for his father.
Here you can see which church-books of Oletzko are available in the states archive of Lyck/Poland.
http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Ostpreu%C3%…euburg_(Oletzko)
Gruß - Detlef

JackPara

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Saturday, January 12th 2019, 5:07pm

Vielen Dank für Ihre Informationen über diesen Pass ist sehr interessant, aber wenn es um Geburtsurkunden geht, können sie mir in diesem Fall nicht helfen. Ich weiß, dass Martin nicht geboren wurde, nicht in Olecko und nicht in diesem Bereich als Siedler hierher gekommen Die Situation von jedem Dokument aus seinem Aufenthalt in Olecko kann mir seinen Geburtsort zeigen

Billet

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Saturday, January 12th 2019, 5:26pm

Herr v. Roy teilt hierzu mit :

Dem „Heimathschein“ von 1902 zufolge wurde der Ziegler (hier könnte sowohl ein Ziegeleibesitzer als auch ein Ziegeleiarbeiter gemeint sein)
Johann Steinwald am 25. Aug. 1 8 4 2 in Dziengellen / Ostpreußen geboren. Hier kämen 2 Dörfer namens „Dziengellen“ in Betracht,
die heute zum p o l n i s c h e n Teil Ostpreußens gehören:

1. Das Dorf „Dziengellen“ (1938: Dingen) im Kreis Oletzko (1938: Treuburg). Dziengellen (= etwa 10 km südlich von Oletzko gelegen)
gehörte zur Pfarrkirche in G o n s k e n (1938: Herzogskirchen).

2. Das Dorf „Dziengellen“ (1938: Widmannsdorf) im Kreis Goldap. Dziengiellen (= etwa 10 km südöstlich von Goldap gelegen )
gehörte zur Pfarrkirche in G u r n e n .

Man müßte eine Kopie des „Heimathscheins“dem polnischen Staatsarchiv in Allenstein
(= http://www.olsztyn.ap.gov.pl/kontakt )
vorlegen und fragen, ob sich die E l t e r n des Johann Steinwald anhand der Taufbücher von 1 8 4 2 ermitteln lassen. Viel Erfolg!


MfG
Wappen-Billet.de
M.d.WL.
M.d.HGW.
M.d.IDW.
M.d.MWH.
M.d.H.

Detlef05

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Monday, January 14th 2019, 11:09am

Hello Jack,
unfortunately I didn't identyfy the birthplace which I deciphered as Duiengellen. Obviously Billet is right: meant is Dzingellen. Johann Steinwald lived/worked in 1902 in Wilna (today Vilnius, capital of Lithuania).

Dzingellen was a rural commune in the bailwick of Gurnen in the county of Goldap. http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Gurnen.

The available Lutheran churchbooks of Dzingellen/Gurnen are listed here: http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Ostpreu%C3%…de_Kreis_Goldap. Maybe you prefer the LDS database (Mormons) or the EZA Berlin: http://www.ezab.de/
Good luck!

Kind regards
Detlefr

JackPara

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Monday, January 14th 2019, 1:59pm

Thank you all for help in this matter. I am trying to simplify it somehow. My great-grandfather is Matthis STEINWALD (1864), a documentary which I presented to Johann Steinwald who was the elder brother of my great-grandfather. Both of them and the rest of their siblings were born in the village of Dzingellen, Kreis Oletzko / Ostpreußen, belonged to the parish in Gonsken. I have their birth certificates. I am looking for a document that will show me the origin of their parents, Martin Steinwald and his wife, Sofi Lipinska. The whole family went to Vilnius in (around) 1880. From that moment, I know their entire stories.
I want to know where their father Martin and his wife come from.
They all needed documents like Johann to go to Vilnius.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "JackPara" (Jan 14th 2019, 4:58pm)


Detlef05

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Monday, January 14th 2019, 4:25pm

village of I n g l l e n

Hello Jack,
now I am a litte bit confused. The "Heimatbrief" and the birth certificate are about "Dzingellen". Dzingellen was germanized in 1938 "Dingeln". Have you ever researched the Gurnen churchbooks? See my note from today 11:09 h.
Kind regards
Detlef

JackPara

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Friday, January 18th 2019, 2:04pm

Detlef05

Natürlich habe ich beim Schreiben des Namens Dzingellen einen Fehler gemacht, den ich bereits korrigiert habe. <Dorf von I n g l l e n>
Warum schlagen Sie vor, in Gurnen nach Kirchenbüchern zu suchen?
Sie sind alle in Dzingellen geboren, ich habe Dokumente.

JackPara

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Friday, January 18th 2019, 2:18pm

Hallo, kann jemand meine Suche leiten? Der Bruder meines Urgroßvaters hatte 1902 in Ostpreußen einen Militärdienst. Ich möchte ein militärisches Dokument finden, ich hoffe, dass der Geburtsort ihres Vaters dort sein wird. Gibt es eine Chance, das wegzubekommen?

Detlef05

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Tuesday, January 22nd 2019, 5:39pm

http://www.online-ofb.de/famreport.php?o…einwald&lang=de
Hello Jack,
three
days after starting the thread you presented the above secondary
source, the "OFB" Marggrabowa (Treuburg). This is what this key-info
says:
In the past during Martin St. life there
was an incidently change of the surname from Steinwart to Steinwald.
steinwart is an occupation name and Steinwald is a location name.
Nowadays both names are on the same level less comman in Germany. There
is a certain concentration in Northwest, not strong enough for
deductions.
https://geogen.stoepel.net/ : input the name and press enter
Martin
St. was not married. Together with Sophia Lipinski he had two children
born in Dzingellen. From the "Heimatbrief" we know, that the son Johann
ST. was a migrant brickmaker who went to Wilna/Vilnius/Lithuania where
his mother Sophia died in 1919.
Martin St. came back to
Dzingellen allready in the 1860s. Together with Maria Tichel born in
Szypliszki/Poland he had another two illigitimate children, the first
born in Dzingellen and the second in Schedlisken/Lyck/Poland.

Quoted

Warum schlagen Sie vor, in Gurnen nach Kirchenbüchern zu suchen?
I
wonder why all those data from Dzingellen are in the OFB of Marggrabowa
(was it why he was unwedded and his potential brother Mathis born 1835
lived together with his legitimate family in Rosochatzken/Marggrabowa?).
Dzingellen is part of the parish of Gurnen.
http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Ostpreu%C3%…de_Kreis_Goldap.
Scroll down to Gurnen and take in mind the footnote d.).
Martin
St. was probably born between 1832 and 1842, 30 to 20 years before
Johannes St. was born. From my point of view you have only tiny chances
to get a step forward:
1.) by churchbook of Gurnen
2.) "Heimatbrief" if Martin St. was also a migrant worker: https://www.ahnen-spuren.de/ostpreussen/heimatbriefe
3.) by special East Prussia genealogy forum: ww.ostpreussen.net/ostpreussen/forum.php

4.) by incident
Kind regards
Detlef

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Detlef05" (Jan 22nd 2019, 5:44pm)


JackPara

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Tuesday, January 22nd 2019, 10:12pm

Thank you very much for all this work and contribution to this post. I think that we still have a small misunderstanding with the location of these two places, and one place where my ancestors of Martin's children were born are Dzingellen near Ełk, the second Dzingellen are near Gołdap and belong to the parish in Gurnen. I do not think that my ancestors had any connection with Gurnen because it is very far from Olecko and Dzingellen in which they were born in the Gonsken parish. I'm sorry but maybe I do not understand something, Dzingellen from the Gonsken parish lie only 3 km from Olecko where Marcin's brother and his family lived. Do not you think that makes sense?
Kind regards.
Jack