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norton67

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1

Monday, May 20th 2019, 3:33pm

Karl ARMBRUST artist / painter

Hello everyone,

Maybe someone can help me please.

Full name: Heinrich Wilhelm Karl ARMBRUST: I'm looking for any family information on Karl ARMBRUST, particularly his father and mother. He was a notable artist / painter, born Itzehoe, S-H, 2 Oct 1867, spent some time in the Netherlands then returned to Germany. He died Kassel, Hesse, 27 Jul 1928.

The attached death document (Kassel Civil Registration Office # 1) is all I've found so far and any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

Bob Armbrust
USA
norton67 has attached the following files:

2

Tuesday, May 21st 2019, 11:55pm

Hello norton,

Carl wasn’t married, so you need the Church book entry from his birth/baptism. They are not digitalized yet.
Church-archive for Itzehoe: https://www.kk-rm.de/was-wir-tun/ahnenforschung/

Further informations by:
Allgemeines Künstlerlexikon(AKL). Hrsg. v. Beyer, Andreas […], Bd. 5: Ardos – Avogaro, S. 130.

Armbrust, Karl (Carl), dt. Maler, 2.10.1867 Itzehoe, + 27.7.1928 Kassel [ledig]. Studium: KA Kassel bei Lois Kolitz und Carl Wünnenberg. 2 Jahre in den Niederlanden, 1 Jahr in Rapallo, später in Hessen als realistisch.-romantischer Landschaftsmaler, Bildmotive zu den Orten: Grebenstein, Grifte, Kassel, Marburg, Waldeck. Auch zu mytholog. Darstellungen, z.B. Anakreon; Prometheheus. Fertigte auch Porträt-Aufträge.1911 erschien Mappe „Alt-Marburg“ (10 farbige Drucke, Verlag Elwert, Marburg) Vermutlich mit Friedrich Fennel weitere Mappen heraus. Das Öl-Gemälde „Frühling in Grebenstein“ wird im Besitz der Familie vermutet. Das Werk „Jüngling und Mädchen mit Flöte“ (Leinwand), soll sich in der Neuen Galerie in Kassel befinden.

And by:
Bollhardt, Herrmann: Itzehoes Stadtbild : Haus- und Grundstücksbesitzer 17. Jh. – 1982, Folge 1: Gänsemarkt und Holzkamp, S. 30.
(In this book, there is only one entry for homeowners who called „Armbrust“!)

Quoted


Klein Paaschburg Nr. 20
Catastrum 1739 Nr. 352 Altstadt/Itzehoe
Neue pascheburg ¼ Haus = 4ß
Quartier IV. 77 – 524

1783-1786 Marx Armbrust

[But I think it’s not the right one – check: https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/cid8774226

Last but not least you’ll find (a part) of Census-registered people called „Armbrust“ in Schleswig-Holstein:
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/search/ (Type in Armbrust in the “Last Name-Field” and search.)

Link zur Sterbeurkunde: https://arcinsys.hessen.de/arcinsys/digi…electId=7733711

Kind regards
Fleno

norton67

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Wednesday, May 22nd 2019, 5:16am

Hello Fleno,

Thank you for the information. It will be very helpful, not only with Karl but other ARMBRUSTs I'm searching.

Sincerely,

Bob Armbrust

4

Wednesday, May 22nd 2019, 6:41pm

Hello,

more "Armbrust" in Itzehoe on:

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Fleno" (May 23rd 2019, 12:02am)


Berlin-Bob

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5

Thursday, May 23rd 2019, 7:58pm

Hi Bob,

There are lots of ARMBRUSTS here too: http://gedbas.genealogy.net

in the "Funktionen" menu => "Sprache auswählen" on the left, of the page you can change the language to english

If you search for ARMBRUST you get 63 pages of ARMBRUST and variations !
If you enter "Itzehoe" you get this entry:
"Ferdinand Jürgen Friedrich Armbrust * 1815 Itzehoe + 1863 auf See parents: Armbrust - Wittmark

click on his name and look at the record
(direct link: http://gedbas.genealogy.net/person/show/1131288509

He is probably too old to be Karl's father, but how about one of Ferdinand's children ?
Once you find the father's name, you can compare it with the list of children ... and then ....

GEDBAS is a database where researchers can upload GEDCOMs of their family trees,
so if you do get lucky and find a possible match, then you can contact the tree submitter and hopefully, get more information.

So this might not help straight away, but once you have found more connections, and in particular, the father's name,
then this could lead to contacts to other ARMBRUST researchers.


Good luck,
(another) Bob

norton67

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Friday, May 24th 2019, 2:21pm

PS

Hi Bob and Fleno,

Thanks for your replies and additional information. Ferdinand Jurgen Friedrich ARMBRUST was my 2nd g'grandfather, a seaman who left Itzehoe and married a TIEMANN in Blankenese. I agree that he is not likely the father of Karl but he had several siblings. I have tracked most but not all of them and as yet not found a connection to Karl.

There were several families named ARMBRUST in Itzehoe at the time of Johann Matthias Anton ARMBRUST (FJFA's father) and I think all, most or at least some must have been related. I've done address searches when I could and found many lived very close to one another. To further support my theory, through DNA I have found a connection with a woman (ARMBRUST) in Australia who's family origins are in Oelixdorf which borders Itzehoe.

Again the only digitalized record of Karl that I can find is his death certificate from Kassel, no birth record other than Wikipedia saying he was born Itzehoe. That information had to come from somewhere so it must be "out there" in cyberspace. I think Fleno may be right, the only way to get there is go through the parish records for Karl and also further records of my ancestors as well. They have advised me however that will be "needle in haystack" work so I'm trying anything else first.

I appreciate your taking interest in my searches and as always find the members of this forum friendly and helpful. This is a very nice group of people and I'm happy to be associated with you all> :)

My sincere thanks,

Bob

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "norton67" (May 24th 2019, 3:28pm) with the following reason: Additional information: On Ancestry I have listed close to 100 ARMBRUST families in the greater Hamburg, Germany area, most with documentation. If anyone is researching ARMBRUSTs I will gladly share that information. Please let me know if I can help. Bob A.


norton67

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Friday, May 24th 2019, 4:42pm

Armbrust

Hello Fleno,

The information in those books looks interesting. Are they both ADDRESS BOOKS ? Can you tell me what the 2 ARMBRUST listings on page 15 of the first book say ? It looks like initials but no first & middle names after ARMBRUST. Anything more you can tell me will be helpful.

Also the second book page 993 (cigar salesman) looks like first name Heinrich. That might fit with someone in my family but I'm not 100% sure. I'll compare names and dates on Heinrich the cigar salesman.

Thanks,

Bob A.

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Friday, May 24th 2019, 7:39pm

Ferdinand Jurgen Friedrich ARMBRUST was my 2nd g'grandfather, a seaman who left Itzehoe and married a TIEMANN in Blankenese.


In that case it's worth an email to the submitter.
It's 6 years since he submitted that data, and even if he didn't add Ferdinand's siblings, he may at least know some names (or have found more information in the meantime)

regards,
B-Bob.

ps
include a link to this topic in your email - maybe he'd like to join in the discussion :)

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Friday, May 24th 2019, 10:29pm

Armbrust

Hi Bob,

I skimmed through the GEDBAS pages today and a lot of the information there is what I have and provided myself. I don't think I posted it to GEDBAS however so I'm not sure how the submitter got it. I'm sure of this because nobody here knew of some of the deaths posted, particularly in Rhode Island, USA.

I've been grinding away on researching the name for a long time including a trip to Hamburg a few years ago which added some names and tied a few things together for me. The people at the parish covering Itzehoe & Glückstadt (at Wrist, Germany I believe) suggested I'm pretty much at a dead end so I'm trying to find other sources. One of those books that Fleno showed me in this thread is new to me. The cigar salesman in the 2nd book I may have seen before. I may have to go ahead and seek help from the parish after all but I know that will be time consuming and therefore quite costly. I will take your advise and e mail the GEDBAS submitter in that he / she may have an interest and more information.

Meanwhile if anyone reading this has an interest in anything ARMBRUST I would like to talk and I have much information to share. For instance I recently found a death certificate of a young man (16 years) named ARMBRUST from Altona with no mother or father listed. With the help of others on this forum I learned he died riding his bicycle off a dock into the river (seemingly the ELBE) and drowned. I had ancestors in that neighborhood so I think he must have been related just like I think Karl must hav been related too. Another ARMBRUST, a captain drowned in the North Sea after being swept off the deck of his steam powered tug boat. The list goes on and on. Father & son ARMBRUSTs, organists at that big Lutheran church in Hamburg ...

PHEW ! ... I'm rambling.

Again, thank you and everyone for your help.

The quest continues.

Regards,

Bob A.

10

Saturday, May 25th 2019, 12:35am

Quoted

I think Fleno may be right, the only way to get there is go through the parish records for Karl and also further records of my ancestors as well.

Yes :D ! I think this was the only way! Many Church books in Schleswig-Holstein waiting for digitalisation - dates not determined. (My own experience - I'm waiting too...). Only a smal part from the "Evangelisch Lutherische Kirche in Norddeutschland" was online at https://www.archion.de/en/browse/?no_cac…h=610987-755498, a chargeabel-service from the German church.

A request by post costs about 30 to 35 €uros (only € - otherwise add 13 € bank fees) for the baptismal entry of Karl. A visit and self-search-and-copy ~ 6 to 15 € (visit/copy fees). If you can still wait for a few weeks or month... - because, while I searching for Karl Armbrust, I remembered that I need a Church book entry from Barmstedt who is saved in the same archive as Itzehoe. I can't promise anything, but I can try to get "your Karl" it in the next month.

Quoted

The information in those books looks interesting. Are they both ADDRESS BOOKS ? Can you tell me what the 2 ARMBRUST listings on page 15 of the first book say ? It looks like initials but no first & middle names after ARMBRUST. Anything more you can tell me will be helpful.

Mercantilisches Adreßbuch der Herzogthümer Schleswig, Holstein u. Lauenburg. 1845. = "A Adressbook for traders, manufacturers and other adresses" digitalized by Danish National Library.
  • Armbrust, H. I. H. [I don't know the names] Gewurzw.-Hdl. [spice trader], Feldschmiede [Street - free translated: "fieldforge"(?Idk) ]
  • Armbrust, P. I. M. [I don't know the names] Gewurzw.-Hdl. [spice trader], Sandberg [street - free translated: "sandhill"]

It's possible that I means I[saac] or J[ack]!
Sometimes the 1st "first name" was a new name, the 2nd the name from fathers father (grandpa) and 3th from mothers father or in other order..., for the 2nd child the grand uncle/aunt [...] names and so...

Take a look at this danish page (Remeber the Schleswig-Holstein history):

Quoted

Last but not least you’ll find (a part) of Census-registered people called „Armbrust“ in Schleswig-Holstein:
https://www.danishfamilysearch.com/search/ (Type in Armbrust in the “Last Name-Field” and search.)


At last...

Quoted

Also the second book page 993 (cigar salesman) looks like first name Heinrich. That might fit with someone in my family but I'm not 100% sure. I'll compare names and dates on Heinrich the cigar salesman.

Right!
  • Armbrust Heinr. [Heinrich] Cigarrenhdlg.[Cigarrenhandlung = cigar shop]


Regards
Fleno

11

Saturday, May 25th 2019, 12:44am

Quoted

For instance I recently found a death certificate of a young man (16 years) named ARMBRUST from Altona with no mother or father listed. With the help of others on this forum I learned he died riding his bicycle off a dock into the river (seemingly the ELBE) and drowned. I had ancestors in that neighborhood so I think he must have been related just like I think Karl must hav been related too. Another ARMBRUST, a captain drowned in the North Sea after being swept off the deck of his steam powered tug boat. The list goes on and on. Father & son ARMBRUSTs, organists at that big Lutheran church in Hamburg ...

Which year he/they lives in Altona or Hamburg?

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Saturday, May 25th 2019, 2:31am

Armbrust

Hi again Fleno,

The young boy on the bicycle I mentioned lived in Altona and died 1932. At first it seemed that he may have been involved in the Altona Bloody Sunday event between political activists and the police. That was not the case however. Another member of this forum found an old newspaper article describing his accident.

If you look at THREAD TOPICS in this Forum list under "1932 Hamburg Newspaper" submitted by me and a continuance in next post with "Altona Bloody Sunday" added you can see the whole story. The young man's death certificate is posted there. A link to the newspaper is posted in the second THREAD. I realize his given names are not uncommon but I also have similar given names in my ancestry. (Johannes, Heinrich and Georg)

I'll look for the two organists but I don't have that at my fingertips.

Thank you for offering to look up Karl when you visit. I can wait, it's been a long time already.

Regards,

Bob A.

13

Sunday, May 26th 2019, 12:35pm

The young boy and his familiy (?) lived in Hamburg, Grevenweg 133 (habour) https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?whe….54883/10.04408
Look at:
Adressbook Hamburg 1932 http://agora.sub.uni-hamburg.de/subhh-ad…&sdid=c1:956429
Adressbook Hamburg 1933 http://agora.sub.uni-hamburg.de/subhh-ad…&sdid=c1:936819
Adressbook Hamburg 1934 http://agora.sub.uni-hamburg.de/subhh-ad…&sdid=c1:923219
Adressbook Hamburg 1938 http://agora.sub.uni-hamburg.de/subhh-ad…&sdid=c1:875225
Adressbook Hamburg 1943 http://agora.sub.uni-hamburg.de/subhh-ad…c1:458357&p=151
But not after war ... (I think they were bombed out)
Adressbook Hamburg 1947 http://agora.sub.uni-hamburg.de/subhh-ad…&sdid=c1:465618

Do you know this side? Hamburg Civil registry name lists for birth, wedding, death: https://www.hamburg.de/bkm/digitalisate/…/4133090/start/

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Fleno" (May 26th 2019, 1:33pm)


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Sunday, May 26th 2019, 11:06pm

Armrust

Hi Fleno,

Thank you. I have never seen any of these sites. My question is how do you know this is the same person that rode his bicycle into the river and who are his father & mother ?

The Hamburg Civil Registery site looks great ! I'm sure I can use that a lot.

Amazing ! You have great resources for information. Thank you for sharing them with me.

Regards,

Bob

15

Monday, May 27th 2019, 12:54am

I think it's plausible by many pieces: The dates between newspaper (15 July 1932) and the death certificate (18 July 1932) and the name "Armbrust". The newspaper called him Hans (a short form of Johannes) and they missed the body after the accident. Furthermore, "both guys" in the documents were delivery boys. Possibly that a church book know here more.
At the certificate you can read his adress "Grevenweg 133" - J. Armbrust (dockworker) lived here up to 1943 or a little bit later. So it's possible that was his father.
The connection to the bloody sunday - I guess it was more of a coincidence...

(Unfortunately I can't see the original newspapers at http://www.theeuropeanlibrary.org - only a loading-loop. )

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Monday, May 27th 2019, 4:11pm

Armbrust

Good morning (here) Fleno,

Yes I see your point now and I completely missed the address being shown on Johannes' death certificate. From other information I have in my family tree I think young Johannes may have been in my family as I suspected. I'm quite sure his father was Arthur Johannes ARMBRUST and Johannes was his first born. The name, dates and area all fit although that doesn't make it 100% positive. If I am correct the young Johannes was MY g'grandfather's brother's grandson.

I've looked and looked for a long time and have not been able to find anything more until you sent me the information you found. I'm most appreciative, thank you. This ties up 3 separate things I've been working on and although I'm not 100% I'm going to assume it's right until proven wrong.

Regards,

Bob

17

Monday, May 27th 2019, 9:32pm

It could be true. Arthur Johannes Armbrust married on 4. January 1915, https://www.hamburg.de/contentblob/42511…-5-47023-01.pdf p.39 (Standeamt 2a = HH Mitte, Nr. 4/1915) - enought time to become the baby.
But Johannes Willi Armbrust married on 23. February 1915 (Standeamt 2a = HH Mitte, Nr. 125/1915). So you must check the certificates for 100% safety. I mean, you can get the documents on ancesty.com (I don't have an account).

Note: For more Armbrust in german archives look at https://www.archivportal-d.de/objekte?qu…mbrust&offset=0

Regards
Fleno

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Tuesday, May 28th 2019, 3:15am

It was Willi who was the boy's father. Willi and his wife were killed in a Hamburg air raid 1943. Willi's death certif. gives his address as Grevenweg 133, same as the boy's. Also his death certif. says the air raid shelter was at Grevenweg 129 which was close by. That confused me a little bit at first. Willi and his wife being killed 1943 would also account for them NOT living at # 133 after 1943. Arthur who I thought could have been the boy's father and Willi were 1st cousins. Mystery solved !

Thank you very much for your help and guidance with this search. I've learned to be more careful and thorough in my research. That's a good thing.

Yes, the Altona Bloody Sunday thing was a coincidence. I had never heard of it but when I first posted this query a member suggested young Hans could have been involved because of the date.

Also I will look at the archivportal link you sent. A quick peek shows much promise, thank you.

I am a member of ancestry.com so if you ever need a look up I'd be glad to help, just let me know.

Regards and let's stay in touch,

Bob

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