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Jlb99457

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Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan USA

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Tuesday, March 18th 2014, 5:07pm

Oldest Ancestor Search - Juri BERGES

Hello,

I am trying to find information on my oldest known ancestor Juri Berges who was born in Munchhausen about 1730. He emigrated to Sint Annaland, Zeeland, Netherlands where he married in 1760 in the Dutch Reformed church. The church record stated only that he was born in a Munchhausen. I am trying to find his birth record. I have found four Munchhausens in Germany and two in the Alsace area of France. I believe his name "Juri" is slavik or Norwegian. I am trying to search Munchhausen, Bradenberg and Munchhausen (Mnichow) Silesia and have yet to have any success. My father has searched in Hesse in the 1970's. I do not know if Juri Berges was Catholic or Reformed or what chuch he may have attended. His grandson was a Reformed church elder in Tholen, Zeeland. Any assistance as to where to search for civil records or which church records would be appreciated.



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s.a. Ancestor Search - Juri BERGES

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Tuesday, March 18th 2014, 8:45pm

Berges

It won't help much when I tell you that I happened to find Jurij G. Berges-Maas, a conductor [see lemidi-muenster.de/veranstaltungen/, scroll ---> "Alien Riders". Could be a descendant of your Juri Berges, you never know.
It seems to me that your are searching for a needle in a haystack since there were 6 places called Münchhausen, and I think you know where they are to be found.
Juri, by the way, is and was a pretty uncommon Christian name in Germany. You find it in Russia.

Have you already contacted the parish of Münchhausen in Lahn-Dill-Kreis, Hessen? It is closer to the Netherlands than the ones in Alsace, Brandenburg and Silesia.

Good luck with your further research.

Jlb99457

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Thursday, March 20th 2014, 4:02pm

Thank you for your reply. I will be interested in trying to contact today's Jurij Berges.

I realize I'm in for a difficult search, but I enjoy challenges and should have 30 years yet to search, unless I get hit by a bus.

I'm tracing my fathers research from the late 70's. He found all Munchhausens except the old Upper Silesia Munchhausen, now Mnichow, Poland. I have started a thread in this region also.

My father researched first Munchhausen, Hesse just north of Marburg. He contacted the Evangelical Church D3551 and the Hessisches Staatsarchiv Marburg, and Der Herold in Berlin.

He then hired a geneologist to research Munchhausen by Herborn Lahn-Dill- Kreise Evangelical Church in Driedorf.

After this the geneologist searched birth records Munchhausen, Bradenberg where exactly I do not know yet.

Last another geneologist searched the two Munchhausens in France on the Rhine. Supposedly the parish records for Munchhausen, Bas-Rhin only start in 1740 and no Berges were listed for this time frame at all.

The last place checked was what is now Munchhouse, Haut-Rhin, France. The parish records in Colmar were checked with no success or no name Berges or similar.

I need to review my father's letters once more so that I don't duplicate efforts and to clarify further where he searched. It could be the birth record was overlooked.

Fortunately I have the internet to work with where my father didn't.

I wonder if I need to just find the correct parish to succeed with my search? My father was of the belief that Juri was French Huegenot. Have all the churches been indexed and available in regional archives or are visits to the actual church still required?

I have searched the common online databases and find no listing for any people born in any Munchhausens. Why?

Also, these databases show that in the early 1700's Juri was a common Norwegian name with a few Swedish. Later the name appears in Russia.

Perhaps Juri's parents came by boat from Norway down the Rhine or Oder rivers early 1700's because of the Great Northern War? One interesting facet of ancestral searches is the history behind it. This area seemed to be active area of religious conflict which may have influenced the migration of my ancestor.

I do appreciate any information you know that may help me. I find this research fascinating and plan on keeping at the search. Just need to eliminate one Munchhausen at a time with best application of logic.

Jeff Berge(r)s.

4

Thursday, May 1st 2014, 10:34pm

Hello Jeff,

as Willi already stated correctly, you won't be able to find the right Juri Berges without any more information about which
Muenchausen they meant. Is it possible to get anymore documents about him in the country where you live, which might state a bit more than just Muenchausen?

As Willi also rightly said, Juri is a russian name and usually spelled with a "Y" and germans wouldn't have used it.
I would rather think that Juri is derived from the netherlandish names Joeri, Joris, Jurgen or Jurriaan,
especially as the name "Joeri" is pronounced "Juri"! The mispelling might have happened through the change to english language!
Additionally your ancestor was married in a dutch church, which might be another hint that you have to search in or near the Netherlands!

Jlb99457

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Saturday, May 10th 2014, 2:36pm

I have found the name Juri is popular in Norway and Estonia. It is possible that the name would appear in Germany through immigration. Perhaps Juri's parent emigrated to Munchhausen, GE or France.

I have a relative who is searching the Dutch Reformed Church in Sint Annaland for possible clues. The marriage certificate clearly states Juri's birth as Munchhausen. A have found a Dutch land record signed by Juri as "Juri Berges".

6

Saturday, June 21st 2014, 3:53am

It would have to be a really rare case. I personally never found anybody in the German records of the 1700s
who was called Juri and also no immigrants as the traditional immigration destinations were rather England and America.
Of course, the exception proves the rule, so there is no 100% guarantee that Juri Berges didn't immigrate to Germany.
The 30 years war mixed up Europes population a lot. But this happened about 80 years before your Juri was born,
so the family would have been in Germany for at least 2 Generations.
And then it's questionable if they would still give their child a foreign firstname after all this time.
You can see here a map of the surname Berges in Germany 2008 and where it's located:
[url]http://verwandt.de.karten.s3.amazonaws.com/berges_absolute.png[/url]

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "LadyCapybara" (Jun 21st 2014, 3:56am)