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Table4two

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1

Tuesday, May 29th 2018, 1:39am

Need help

Is is possible that someone could translate a document or point me to the correct forum, if this is not correct? I believe the document is permission for my relative to emigrate to the US. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Diann

I am most grateful!
Table4two has attached the following file:

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Table4two" (May 29th 2018, 8:53pm)


Detlef05

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2

Tuesday, May 29th 2018, 11:55am

Hi Diann,
post your document.
Kind regards - Detlef

TK89

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3

Tuesday, May 29th 2018, 10:09pm

Hi Diann,

it's not a permission for immigration, but a birth certificate issued by the catholic clergy office of Oberbessenbach. Unfortunately my English isn't good enough for a literal translation, but it says that Elisabetha Margaretha Kraus, daughter of the farmer Johann Kraus and his wife Ottilia née Becker, was born on April 7, 1863, and baptized the same day in Oberbessenbach.

The full German text reads:

Geburtsschein.
Elisabetha Margaretha Kraus, eheliche
Tochter des Landwirthes Johann Kraus
und der Ottilia geb. Becker, ist am
siebenten April des Jahres Eintausend
acht hundert drei und sechzig – 7. April 1863 –
dahier geboren und getauft worden.
In fidem.
Oberbessenbach den 8ten April 1882.
Kathol. Pfarramt.
Jahn, Pfr.

I hope that helps.

Tim

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "TK89" (May 30th 2018, 2:40am)


Table4two

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4

Wednesday, May 30th 2018, 1:52am

That is even more amazing! I can't believe this document is in such great condition and its her birth certificate. I am so very grateful! Want to translate more? I have one for her spouse and I also think it's his permission to leave Germany but you may surprise me again! I was fortunate to get a box of papers that were stuffed in with pictures. I have a few items that need translated but I don't want to take advantage of your kindness.

Super big Thank you! And your English is superb!
Diann

TK89

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5

Wednesday, May 30th 2018, 3:09am

Sure! Just upload the other document and I'm sure someone here will be able to help you with it. :)

I'm glad I could help you. :)

Tim

Detlef05

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6

Wednesday, May 30th 2018, 8:18am

Hi Diann,
only an unconsequential detail: your document is a certfied copy of a birth certificate. Latin: in fidem = English: certified.
Kind regards - Detlef

Table4two

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7

Wednesday, May 30th 2018, 11:50pm

Thank you...all details are important!

Table4two

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8

Wednesday, May 30th 2018, 11:53pm

Other document to translate

Unfortunately, I am just not bright enough to reduce the other document to a size that will meet requirements for this forum. I am pretty confident this time that it is permission to immigrant so it's not that there is much to it, but I can't get the size small enough.

Diann

Torre

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9

Saturday, June 2nd 2018, 9:41am

Hi Diann,
you could also upload the pics to a free image hosting service (they allow much bigger sizes) and place links to the uploads within your posts.

Regards, Uwe
Forschungsschwerpunkte:
Schönhengstgau: Raum Zwittau/Leitomischl +++ Ostpreußen: Raum Gerdauen, Raum Gumbinnen
Baden-Württemberg: Raum Abtsgmünd, Raum Rottenburg/Neckar

Table4two

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10

Sunday, June 3rd 2018, 3:00am

Document for translation.

Let's see if this works! Thanks Uwe for the advice!

The link is to what I believe to be my Grandfather's permission to leave Germany. I would appreciate any information you can translate from it. His name was John Schrott.

https://imgur.com/a/dOE6IOl

Detlef05

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11

Sunday, June 3rd 2018, 10:07am

Hi Diann,
unfortunately your link doesn't work. What about portioning the document?
Kind regards - Detlef

Torre

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12

Sunday, June 3rd 2018, 10:25am

The link is correct. Just the code was missing: https://imgur.com/a/dOE6IOl

Heimath-Schein
---
Von der unterzeichneten Gemeindeverwaltung wird dem
Vor= und Zuname Johann Schrott
Stand verheirateter Landwirt
Wohnort Grünmorsbach in Unterfranken, Bayern,
geboren zu Grünmorsbach den 1. August 1855,
achtundzwanzig Jahre alt und militärfrei
hierdurch bescheinigt, daß er nebst seiner Ehefrau Anna Maria
Margareta Schrott geborne Kraus, 20 Jahre alt und einem
Kinde männlichen Geschlechts mit dem Namen Peter Schrott
in der Gemeinde Grünmorsbach heimathberechtigt sind. Dieselben hin=
terlassen keine Schulden und steht deren Auswanderung
nach Amerika nichts im Wege. Dies
bezeugt: Grünmorsbach 22. August 1883
Die Gemeindeverwaltung
Arnold Bürgemeister.

(File no.) (stamp)

Please, give me some minutes to work on a translation.

Regards, Uwe
Forschungsschwerpunkte:
Schönhengstgau: Raum Zwittau/Leitomischl +++ Ostpreußen: Raum Gerdauen, Raum Gumbinnen
Baden-Württemberg: Raum Abtsgmünd, Raum Rottenburg/Neckar

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Torre" (Jun 3rd 2018, 11:20am)


Torre

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13

Sunday, June 3rd 2018, 11:20am

You are right, Diann. This Heimatschein is a certificate of his citizenship in the municipality of Grünmorsbach. It confirms as well that he together with his family might emigrate to America from the municipality's legal point of view. Here's a rough translation:

From the signed municipal administration it is certified that
Johann ("John") Schrott
married farmer
living in Grünmorsbach, Lower Franconia, Bavaria
born in Grünmorsbach at 1 of August 1855,
twenty eight years of age and free of military duties
along with his spouse Anna Maria
Margareta ("Ann Mary Margaret") Schrott née Kraus, 20 years of age and a
child of male gender named Peter Schrott
are legitimate home citizens of the municipality of Grünmorsbach. The same persons
are not leaving depts and there is nothing to prevent them from an emigration to America.
Certified: Grünmorsbach 22 of August 1883
The municipal administration
Arnold Mayor

Regards, Uwe
Forschungsschwerpunkte:
Schönhengstgau: Raum Zwittau/Leitomischl +++ Ostpreußen: Raum Gerdauen, Raum Gumbinnen
Baden-Württemberg: Raum Abtsgmünd, Raum Rottenburg/Neckar

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Torre" (Jun 3rd 2018, 11:26am)


Table4two

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14

Sunday, June 3rd 2018, 3:56pm

Saying thank you is just not enough to say how much this means to me and my family! I thank everyone who helped with both documents I posted and helped me find my "home towns" in Germany.

With heartfelt appreciation,
Diann

Torre

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15

Sunday, June 3rd 2018, 6:15pm

Diann, I'm glad having made you happy with my little favour. And please, you should feel absolutely free to ask for more help if you need some (as you mentioned a whole box of documents :D ). That's what a network like this one is for. We are helping gladly with trascriptions and translations if we can. It's even fun for many of us!

Best regards,
:thumbsup: Uwe
Forschungsschwerpunkte:
Schönhengstgau: Raum Zwittau/Leitomischl +++ Ostpreußen: Raum Gerdauen, Raum Gumbinnen
Baden-Württemberg: Raum Abtsgmünd, Raum Rottenburg/Neckar

Table4two

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16

Sunday, June 3rd 2018, 6:57pm

Well you are all way too kind and my family is just thrilled with your generosity and kindness. If there is anything I can do to help anyone with something in the US, please ask! I am indebted to you all and thank you Uwe for encouraging me to post again. I really didn't want to ask too much and appear greedy.

So....here is another document. This is from my Great X 3 grandfather. It is a personal letter which was not sent for unknown reasons but was saved for over 125 yrs. Perhaps you all can unlock the mystery of its contents. Hopefully when you go to the link you see 2 pages attached. If not, let me know.

https://imgur.com/a/AXJAXiL

Torre

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17

Sunday, June 3rd 2018, 8:05pm

Well Diann,

first, I post the original German writing as I read it. I transcribed it as it is written, means: there are of course some mistakes/miss-writings if you take modern German as a "benchmark". The whole writing seems already a bit influenced by English. He e.g. was using "missen" instead of the correct vermissen ... which means to miss (missing). Here you go:

--- page 1 ---

Allegheny the 10th of August 1898

Liebe Tochter

Deine Briefe die du uns geschrieben
haben wir erhalten, und wir sehen
das du bei guter gesundheit bist,
wir alle sind auch gesund, wie es
scheint hast du den Brief wo Wille
letzten Freitag dir geschrieben nicht
bekommen. Liebe Tochter, die Reiße
die du unternommen glaube Ich thut
dier guth, was die geschäften anbelangt
so Arbeiten wir noch wie vor
deiner abreiße noch. Wier haben hier
genug Regen gehabt und alles wächst
guth. Wier Missen manchmal etwas
und ich glaube das bist du, so wie
unser kleine Gilta dich missen thut
Sie schauth manchmal nach der Geth
und Ruft dann dann, und wir
drösten sie, Sie komt, aber wan, nun
gute Hofnung

--- page 2 ---

Was meine garten arbeit anbelangt
so habe ich immer genug zu thun
und die Mutter thut immer fleisig
verkaufen, wen du dieße Paar
zeilen erhalten, so Schreibe gefällichst
wen du gedenkst heim zu kommen
den uns wird anfangs die zeit ein
bischen lang. Nun wier wünschen
dier gesundheit und eine glückliche
Heimreiße. Ein gruß von uns allen
August Merz

I'm still working on translation ^^
Regards, Uwe
Forschungsschwerpunkte:
Schönhengstgau: Raum Zwittau/Leitomischl +++ Ostpreußen: Raum Gerdauen, Raum Gumbinnen
Baden-Württemberg: Raum Abtsgmünd, Raum Rottenburg/Neckar

This post has been edited 5 times, last edit by "Torre" (Jun 3rd 2018, 9:36pm)


Torre

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18

Sunday, June 3rd 2018, 9:22pm

Translation is not that easy due to the old writing and especially if you are also trying to catch the mood :S .
However, the letter tells a story about a father realy missing his daughter, who obviously is living somewhere else. I changed the original punctuation a bit to make it better readable. I really did my best to catch sense and mood properly, but please be aware that it's still a rough and unprofessional translation.

--- page 1 ---

Dear daughter,

we received the letters you wrote,
and we see that you are in
good health. We all are healthy
as well. It seems, that you didn't
receive the letter Wille (=Willy?)
wrote to you last friday. Dear daughter,
as I believe, the journey you undertook
did you good. As far as business is
concerned, we still are working as before
your departure. We have had enough
rain here and everything is growing
well. Sometimes we are missing something
and I think it's you. As well as our little Gilta
does miss you. Sometimes she's watching out
for Geth (must be the nickname of the daughter the letter is adressed to)
and then is shouting, and we are
consoling her "she's coming", but when?
Well, good hope

--- page 2 ---

As far as my garden work is concerned,
I always have enough to do and
mother always does sell diligently.
After you received these few lines,
kindly write, when you are intending
to come home, as initially, time is
getting a bit long for us. Well, we wish
you health and a happy journey home.
A greeting from all of us,
August Merz

Regards, Uwe
Forschungsschwerpunkte:
Schönhengstgau: Raum Zwittau/Leitomischl +++ Ostpreußen: Raum Gerdauen, Raum Gumbinnen
Baden-Württemberg: Raum Abtsgmünd, Raum Rottenburg/Neckar

Table4two

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19

Monday, June 4th 2018, 12:33am

Oh....wow. This is incredible work and translates just fine for me. Willy would be my great, great grandfather William. Geth.....and Gilta, I'm clueless on. As August Merz only had two daughters and one is lost to history (I can't find a thing that she died and if she married, well her married last name to trace her is also lost to history). He had a daughter Elizabeth. Is Geth a common nickname for Elizabeth? The other was Caecillia.

Uwe...you are truly amazing. I'm speechless. I will have to really double my efforts to find Caecillia.

Again, how can I express my gratitude. It's impossible!

Thank you,
Diann

Torre

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20

Monday, June 4th 2018, 2:22pm

Diann,

I once more inspected the letter and I found that I made a mistake: The first letter of the little Girl's name rather looks like the first letter from the word 'Hofnung' than from the word 'Gute'. So her name would be Hilta. Hilda (this is the correct modern notation) is a German female first name by itself. However, it could also be a short version of common German names like Hildegard, Mathilda (and some others which are less common). Unfortunately, Hilda does not match at all with Caecilia.

Well, common German nicknames for Elisabeth would be Lisa or Beth ... more or less like in English. Probably, Geth is a miss-writing. Another idea: If this girl Hilda was still very little and would not have yet spoken properly, maybe August Merz might also have used Hilda's original wording?

?( Uwe
Forschungsschwerpunkte:
Schönhengstgau: Raum Zwittau/Leitomischl +++ Ostpreußen: Raum Gerdauen, Raum Gumbinnen
Baden-Württemberg: Raum Abtsgmünd, Raum Rottenburg/Neckar

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Torre" (Jun 4th 2018, 6:40pm)