Great Great Grandmother - can you help me find her please?

  • Hello everyone,
    Please, is there someone that can someone help us to find our German ancestors?


    Anna Maria Luckhardt was my GGGrandmother. We don’t know when she came to England, or who her mother was and have no information for her before 1861. The German Embassy in London does not have a record of her birth certificate. We would love to know more about her and the ancestors in Germany. Anything you have would be very helpful. All we know is this : -



    Anna Maria Luckhardt
    Born: Frankfurt, Germany - about 1828
    Father’s Name: Christopher Luckhardt – Occupation: Florist
    Married: Joseph Lanchbury - 15 September 1864 – Westminster, London, England.
    Children: Charlotte Maria Lanchbury 1865-1920 Paulina Lanchbury 1867 - 1911 Ellen Matilda Lanchbury 1872 - 1953
    Died: England - between 1901 – 1911


    The first record we can find for her in England.


    England Census 1861.
    Address: 6 Oxford Terrace, Paddington, Middlesex, England
    Occupation: Servant for Lieutenant Deveraux and Maria Hickman.
    Anna-Maria is named Mary. We know this is Anna Maria as the age and place of birth is right, also, the address is the same on her Marriages and Banns four years later.


    England Census 1871.
    Address: 16 Charles Street, St Marylebone, London, England
    Occupation: Wife to Joseph Lanchbury and mother of 2 daughters.



    England Census 1881.
    Address: 7 George Street, St Marylebone, London, England
    Occupation: Wife to Joseph Lanchbury and mother of 3 daughters.


    England Census 1891.
    Address: 45 Chestnut Grove, Streatham, England
    Occupation: Wife to Joseph Lanchbury and mother of 2 daughters.
    England Census 1901.
    Address: 52 Durham Road, Tottenham, Middlesex, England
    Occupation: Widow.


    There are no more records after this but she may have died before 1911.


    Thank you for anything you may find.





    Bitte kann jemand uns helfen, unsere deutschen Vorfahren zu finden?


    Anna Maria Luckhardt war mein GGGrandmother. Wir wissen nicht, als sie nach England kam, oder wer ihre Mutter war und keine Information für sie vor 1861 haben. Die deutsche Botschaft in London hat eine Aufzeichnung ihrer Geburtsurkunde nicht. Wir würden lieben, mehr über sie und die Vorfahren in Deutschland zu wissen. Irgendetwas, das Sie haben, würde sehr nützlich sein. Alles, was wir wissen, ist das:-


    Anna Maria Luckhardt
    Geboren: Frankfurt, Deutschland - 1828
    Der Name: des Vaters Christopher Luckhardt - Beruf: Blumenhändler
    Geheiratet: Joseph Lanchbury - am 15. September 1864 - Westminster, London, England.
    Kinder: Charlotte Maria Lanchbury 1865-1920 Paulina Lanchbury 1867 - 1911 Ellen Matilda Lanchbury 1872 - 1953
    Gestorben: England - zwischen 1901 - 1911


    Die erste Aufzeichnung können wir für sie in England finden.


    Volkszählung von England 1861.
    Adresse: 6 Terrasse von Oxford, Paddington, Middlesex, England
    Beruf: Diener für den Leutnant Deveraux und Maria Hickman.
    Anna-Maria wird Mary genannt. Wir wissen dass das Anna Maria als das Alter ist, und Geburtsort ist auch richtig, die Adresse ist dasselbe auf ihren Ehen und Aufgebot vier Jahre später.


    Volkszählung von England 1871.
    Adresse: 16 Charles Street, St. Marylebone, London, England
    Beruf: Frau Joseph Lanchbury und Mutter von 2 Töchtern.



    Volkszählung von England 1881.
    Adresse: 7 George Street, St. Marylebone, London, England
    Beruf: Frau Joseph Lanchbury und Mutter von 3 Töchtern.


    Volkszählung von England 1891.
    Adresse: 45 Kastanienbraunes Wäldchen, Streatham, England
    Beruf: Frau Joseph Lanchbury und Mutter von 2 Töchtern.


    Volkszählung von England 1901.
    Adresse: 52 Durham Straße, Tottenham, Middlesex, England
    Beruf: Witwe.


    Es gibt nicht mehr Aufzeichnungen danach, aber sie kann vor 1911 gestorben sein.


    Vielen Dank für irgendetwas können Sie finden.

  • Hello again,


    I have been advised that it may be possible to find my German ancestors through Anna Maria’s father: Christopher Luckhardt who was a florist. Anna Maria was born in Frankfurt and her father may have had a Flower Shop there. His name may be spelled differently and we don’t know when he was born but we guess it was not before 1800.


    We think that a Frankfurt business directory from about 1820 – 1840 may help us.


    Is there anyone that can help us to find one for this period or who may know where else we may try and find him?


    :S

  • Dear Luckhardt,


    I think there are some interesting books in the University Library Johann Christian Senckenberg in Frankfurt ( http://www.ub.uni-frankfurt.de/home_en.html ), for example:


    - Staats- und Adreß-Handbuch der Freien Stadt Frankfurt (part 1, 2, 3, published 1847-1866)
    - Krug's Adress-Buch von Frankfurt am Main (published 1841-1844)
    - Handlungs-Addreß-Kalender von Frankfurt am Mayn (published 1787-1832)


    These calendar and directories are available if they are present in the reading room of the library (some periods in the 18th century are sketchy). There is no online insight.


    Maybe you can also write to Mr. Wirth or Mr. Günther via e-mail, look here: https://www.ub.uni-frankfurt.de/wertvoll/adressbuch.html and click „im Frankfurt-Lesesaal“.
    Write your issue, but before you ask a staff member to search in your order, you should ask for the costs!


    Good luck.
    Many greetings from Ivonne

  • Dear Ivonne,


    Thank you very much for this. Thank you for your time. This is very kind of you and this is very helpful.


    I agree with you that records are sketchy and it will be difficult to find them. Maybe an old florist in Frankfurt will have no significance or record but we have to try to find them. They matter to us.


    Just for the record: We found a listing on German Ancestry forum for Anna Marie Caroline Luckhardt – Her father was Friederich Christoph Luckhardt. It is possible that this could be them but it did not give anything more. Only their names came up when we tried a search. It is sad if they are lost forever.


    Recently, I spoke to a German National who had lived in England for many years. He had no discernable accent but the way he pronounced R was very distinct. When I heard it, all the hairs on my arm stood up because this is exactly how my Grandfather pronounced R and I had not heard this since I was a child. He must have learned this from his mother who was born in England but her mother was Anna Maria Luckhardt and this little intonation must have come from her.


    This little intonation is just one very small trait that was passed down for 3 generations only but there are other, more subtle traits that are passed down in attitude and character etc. It is fascinating, to realize the Germanic influence in our family. We had no idea about this until recently. It is clear that Anna Maria was a strong woman who changed the direction of our family for good and better future and I hope that we can honour her by finding her family and making sure that she is not forgotten by the younger generations.


    Once again, thank you for your time. :)


    Anna Maria’s G.G.Granddaughter.

  • Hi Anna Maria's G.G. Granddaughter,


    I recommend that you post your request also under "Hessen" ( scoll down a little ) because there are the real expert's
    at home who might help you.


    Regards Renate from Berlin

  • Hello,


    was she Catholic or Lutheran?


    Assi


    Und was ich nicht ändern kann, da bleibe ich weiter dran... (Herbert Grönemeyer)

  • Hello assi,


    This is a very interesting question and we would also like to know the answer because this branch of the family was very religious [Methodist] but none of them were Catholic as far as we know.


    I must apologise for several edits. This is a clarification of all we know:


    Anna Maria Luckhardt: Spinster of 6 Oxford Terrace and Joseph Lanchbury: Widow and Shoemaker of 8 Polygon Mews South married on:
    Date: 15th of September 1864
    Marriage place: St John’s Church in the Parish of Paddington – in the County of Middlesex
    Registered at: Kensington, London
    Conducted by: W. Cotton-Risley
    Witnessed by: Alexander Kay and Mary Lamb


    There are 4 Churches called St John in Central London but the boundary lines for London/Middlesex have changed since 1864. None of the churches were Catholic. As far as we can see, there is one strong possibility, but all of them were Anglican.


    http://www.stjohnsnottinghill.com/viewlist.php?item=Art1781 – this is the only St John in Kensington.


    This does not mean that Anna Maria was not a Catholic but maybe it is slightly less likely.


    Unfortunately, it isn’t clear which church Joseph Lanchbury married his first wife in but I would guess that if he had been Catholic, he would have married both wives in a Catholic church.


    It is frustrating that religious belief is one of the significant details that are often lost in family history. My father had been told that we had some Jewish ancestry and we assumed it must be in the German line but there is no evidence for this, so far.


    Thank you very much for your interest assi


    :)

  • Hallo Luckhardt,
    if you look there:
    http://adressbuecher.genealogy.net/
    and search for Luckhardt, you will find some. Because they will be in the eastern of Gemany, I think , it could be Frankfurt at Oder and not Frankfurt at Main.
    And if you look here:
    http://gedbas.genealogy.net/
    and sign in Luckhardt , there are also some ...
    regards
    Jutta

    Es ist nicht das Wissen, sondern das Lernen,
    nicht das Besitzen, sondern das Erwerben,
    nicht das Dasein, sondern das Hinkommen,
    was den größten Genuss gewährt.

    Carl Friedrich Gauß


    Suche FN Wittmann und Angeheiratete-FN Hoffmann/ Oberschlesien-FN Naujock /Ostpreußen

    Dauersuche Geburt Marianna ( Maria) Barbara Olschewski ca 1798 im Raum Dirschau

  • Anna Maria was not a Catholic but maybe it is slightly less likely.


    Hello,


    in Germany the church records are divided in lutheran or catholic. So it depends on the Religion where you have to search.... The lutheran records are in Kassel. Luckhardt is also famous in the area of Bad Hersfeld/Hesse. I have a Luckhardt friend there.


    Assi


    Und was ich nicht ändern kann, da bleibe ich weiter dran... (Herbert Grönemeyer)

  • Hello Assi,


    This is very interesting and also helpful.


    I have really enjoyed a Google of Bad Hersfeld/Hesse and Kassel. I did not know the brothers Grim came from there.


    Last week I dreamed that Anna Maria was combing and plaiting my hair. My Grandfather lived in her home until he was at least 2 years old and learning to speak. This must why he retained a little German intonation on certain sounds. It is quite emotional to understand the origin of this quirk in his speech, so long after he died. We had no idea about her nationality until recently. I am going to spend some time following this link


    http://boards.ancestrylibrary.…sen.general/18532/mb.ashx


    Thank you so much for your interest and time Assi,


    Carolanna May


    :)

  • Hello again to all that are helping me


    this is an update on my search.



    Marriage search for Christopher Luckhardt


    This produced one result: Title – ‘Germany, Select Marriages, 1558 – 1929 (in German)’


    http://search.ancestry.co.uk/c…1GermanyMarriages&indiv=1


    Name: Christoph Luckhardt
    Gender: Male
    Spouse: Maria Elizabetha Nungässer
    Child: Elizabetha Luckhardt
    Date: none given
    Place: none given
    View of document: none given


    So this is what I tried


    1. I attached the name: Maria Elizabetha Nungässer to Christopher Luckhardt with an approximate date of birth and put her place of birth as Germany [no any specific area]. Then I did a search in all categories. No positive result: There were several women in the birth category that had this name but it was impossible to know if any of them were her. In the marriage category, there were more women with the same name but none of them had Christoph Luckhardt as a spouse.



    2. I attached the name Elizabetha Luckhardt as a child to Christopher Luckhardt [and possible sibling to Anna Maria] and did a search in all categories but there was no result at all.



    Conclusion: There was a Maria Elizabetha Nungässer who married a Christoph Luckhardt in Germany before 1929 but I do not know if this is the same Christoph who was a florist and Anna Maria’s father.


    I have not given up the hope to find them and am very happy to have any suggestion of where to look next


    Danke


    :S

  • Hello,


    that is what I've found on the dates you've written above:


    Name: Elisabetha Luckhardt
    Gender: Female
    Marital Status: Widowed
    Age: 37
    Birth Date: 1820
    Marriage Date: 15 Nov 1857
    Marriage Place: Pfungstadt, Hessen, Germany
    Bride Previous Husband's Name: Johann Friedrich Härle
    Father: Christoph Luckhardt
    Mother: Maria Elisabetha Nungässer
    Spouse: Jacob Geibel
    FHL Film Number: 1195499
    Reference ID: p618 #22 1857


    Maybe it's a sister of Anna Maria Luckhardt.



    Regards,

  • I have found a record, which could be a hint. The mother Magdelea (probably Magdalena) might have been a sister of Christopher. But Luckhard is a well known name...


    Name: Louise Caroline D'Alleux
    Gender: Female
    Marital Status: Married
    Age: 52
    Birth Date: 10 Jul 1799
    Birth Place: Meiningen
    Death Date: 4 Apr 1852
    Death Place: Frankfurt (Main), Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany
    Father: Johann Christoph D'Alleux
    Mother: Magdelea Luckhardt
    Spouse: Johann Wilhelm Grun


    Regards

  • Volkszählung von England 1881.
    Adresse: 7 George Street, St. Marylebone, London, England
    Beruf: Frau Joseph Lanchbury und Mutter von 3 Töchtern.




    Probation record:


    England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966 about Joseph Lanchbury
    Name: Joseph Lanchbury
    Probate Date: 16 Oct 1890
    Death Date: 19 Jun 1889
    Death Place: Middlesex, England
    Registry: Principal Registry



    LANCHBURY Joseph Personal Estate £256.
    16. October Administration of the Personal Estate of Joseph Lanchbury late of 7 George-Street Manchester-square
    in the County of Middlesex Shoemaker who died 19 June 1889 at 7 George-Street was granted at the Principal
    Registry to Anna Maria Lanchbury of 7 George - Street
    Widow the relict.



    The registration district of his death is Marylebone.

  • Dear Sammsel,


    Thank you so very much for your kind assistance and time. I was really sad not to find anything more. I also found a Maria Nungässer that is linked to Christoph and what you have found seems to corroborate that this is a real link to my family.


    I would like to hug you.xxxx


    I have more to check and will get back here soon


    Once again ,


    thank you very, very, much


    :)

  • Hello,


    but you have the Lanchbury root haven't you? Joseph Lanchbury was married twice. First marriage with Elizabeth Richardson Walker. Banns were 1839 in Wolford and Cherington, Warwickshire.The actually marriage took place in Wolford. Joseph was of the parish of Cherington and Elizabeth was of the parish of Wolford (Warwickshire). I think they had at least 3 children.


    Best wishes



  • Hello Sammsel,


    Thank you for giving your time on this.


    I followed this hint but it is not a match. The surname was Lyechert not Luckhardt.


    Yes I have everything from Lanchbury: both of his marriages and all of his children. This is not a problem.


    Here is the problem.


    I cannot find more ancestors for Anna Maria Luckhardt.


    I know her father is Christopher and he was a florist. That is written on her marriage certificate. I do not have his age or where he was born or his wife. I only know Anna Maria, his daughter, was born in Frankfurt and was a spinster when she married Joseph Lanchbury in London.


    I also found Maria Nugasser but nothing more comes up for her.


    There is only one Christopher [also spelled Christoph] that comes up and Maria Nugasser is his wife. It could be Anna Maria's father but there is no proof. It may be another man and not her father.


    What I hope someone can help me to find is a birth certificate or record of baptism or Christening for Anna Maria that can show the name of her mother and father and an address.

    Is there a German web site that has all the Lutheran church records of birth? I don’t know if Anna Maria was Catholic but her husband was not.
    Where should I look for her mother?